More thoughts on freedom...

Jhilmil Breckenridge
to jaideep
More options 4:36 pm (0 minutes ago)
Sure, Jaideep, I am a tough cookie to deal with. Just as I respect
your views, it would be nice to do the same to mine, however crazy my
views may be!

I believe in dreaming... and maybe making a positive difference. We
cannot choose who our neighbours are (aka Pakistan, China, etc.) but
we can control how we as a nation view them.

No one is forgetting Dr Kalia, it is after all his son's tragic
killing which led to the two of us discussing this issue... maybe one
day we will meet and enjoy understanding our different viewpoints.

With love,
Jhilmil
- Hide quoted text -



On 9/27/07, jaideep ghosh wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think it is difficult to explain to someone who cannot distinguish between
> Nationalism
> and religious patriotism. As for fanning this Hindutva issue, considering
> that you
> broaced the topic, I fail to see where I come into the picture. After all,
> it is you who brought this
> Hindutva question on. No one is condemning Pakistan as a nation, but a
> military dictatorship
> is hardly an ideal neighbour to have, especially considering the cost to our
> youth in terms of
> life and our economy in terms of money. Also, if someone went on TV in
> Pakistan and said 'Hindu first,
> Pakistani later', he'd be shot and/or lynched.
>
> No borders, no religion, no wars is a idealistic situation, which will
> happen by the next ice age, hopefully.
>
> Making the world a better place sounds great. I would start with India, and
> maybe try to get some closure
> for Dr. Kalia, who seems to be forgotten in this swathe of idealism.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>
> On 9/27/07, Jhilmil Breckenridge wrote:
> > Thanks Jaideep.
> >
> > I understand you feel you are not spreading Hindutva, but this fanning
> > of our patriotism and condemning a country like Pakistan, whether you
> > want to or not, will spread a religous patriotism, akin to Hindutva,
> > no?
> >
> > I believe in world peace and love for all. No boundaries, no
> > religion, no politics, no war.
> >
> > You have your role models, I have mine. Together, we can try and make
> > the world a better place.
> >
> > With my love, and with One Heart,
> > Jhilmil
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/26/07, jaideep ghosh wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I read them. Just a couple of things:
> > >
> > > 1. The issue was if that letter was spreading Hindutva. It wasn't.
> > >
> > > The rest are below:
> > >
> > > On 9/26/07, Jhilmil Breckenridge < jhilmilbreckenridge@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi Jaideep!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for writing back. My comments are below...
> > > >
> > > > Love,
> > > > Jhilmil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/26/07, jaideep ghosh < jdghosh@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Dear Jhilmil,
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi. I have been to Pakistan also, and I have not heard any such
> stories.
> > > I'm
> > > > > sure they exist, and like I said, if you find any such 'martyrs', do
> let
> > > me
> > > > > know.
> > > >
> > > > Okay.
> > > >
> > > > > PS: This impression about not forgetting, I am pretty sure is
> likewise.
> > > >
> > > > Sure...
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PPS: In a country where you can be assaulted and even killed for
> writing
> > > > > your opinion on something, where someone can come on national TV and
> say
> > > he
> > > > > is a Muslim first and an Indian later, where people are blown to
> bits
> > > from a
> > > > > distance for reasons that they have no knowledge about, or not
> concerned
> > > > > about, I'm sorry, Hindutva is not a only problem. But I guess it
> > > fashionable
> > > > > to be a 'liberal' and dump everything in one yard. As for these
> > > > > organisations, they too are pretty unnamed, and to quote you,
> 'perhaps
> > > you
> > > > > have done research on
> > > > > them...? Please do enlighten me. I am all ears'.
> > > > But what about our country where we pretend to be liberal and secular,
> > > > and we torch a Christian missionary and his 10 and 12 year old sons
> > > > sleeping in a jeep? What about Muslim women and girls being raped
> > > > enmasse to teach them a lesson???
> > >
> > >
> > > So what would you prefer, people being pulled out of buses, identified
> as
> > > Hindus,
> > > and then machinegunned? Or being surrounded like in Akshardham temple
> > > and then fired upon from four sides? There were 10-12 year olds there to
> > > but no one knows their names. Or is it OK to plant bombs in commuter
> > > trains and blow people to bits, or leave them maimed forever?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PPPS: Great to know that you have four sons, and one of them wants
> to
> > > be a
> > > > > fighter pilot. Will wait to congratulate him when it happens. Dr
> Kalia
> > > had
> > > > > one son. That does not make the email inflammatory, by any stretch
> of
> > > > > imagination. It is about War Crimes and Human Rights, which I gather
> you
> > > > > reserve for select people. The power of God is to have a detonator
> in
> > > hand,
> > > > > and decide who lives and dies, and in this country, and outside,
> this
> > > power
> > > > > has been violated, time and time again, and we have been victims.
> God
> > > may
> > > > > forgive, but as Indians, it would be a sin to forget.
> > > > I am not asking you to forget, but forgiveness is important. Only
> > > > when we can forgive, can our healing start. I am a divine healer and
> > > > heal Hindus, Muslims, Christians, kind people, bad people, killers,
> > > > rapists, children, infants... I have no choice in who I heal. They
> > > > come to me and I heal them.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think for us people, who are the fringes, to talk of forgiveness is a
> bit
> > > silly.
> > > Ask the affected parties. It would be superhuman to expect them to be as
> > > charitable
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PPPPS: I am an atheist. I believe in being an Indian. You?
> > > > I am very much an Indian. Fiercely patriotic. My role models are
> > > > Gandhi and Mother Teresa. Yours??
> > >
> > >
> > > My role models are lesser mortals, people who are trying to live a good
> > > and decent lives, always under the threat of being blown up by some
> > > offshoot of our intense desire to be politically correct.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > As far as religion goes, it's all muddled, but I do like to go to
> > > > Mehar Baba's samadhi near Pune when I find life a little harsh... For
> > > > the rest of the time, I live in Delhi.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/26/07, Jhilmil Breckenridge
> wrote:
> > > > > > Thanks Jaideep. I have just been to Pakistan and many parents of
> such
> > > > > > martyrs have shared their stories and hearts with me. I will make
> > > > > > sure I keep you in the loop if I hear anything.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With One Heart,
> > > > > > Jhilmil
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS: You did not know me until yesterday, I think (else join me on
> > > > > > Facebook!). Now you will never forget me...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PPS: I think Hindutva is the main problem in our country. So are
> the
> > > > > > so called missionaries who target Christians in Southern India,
> and
> > > > > > the honour conversions in Gujarat and the North East. I do not
> know
> > > > > > the name of such organisations, but perhaps you have done research
> on
> > > > > > them...? Please do enlighten me. I am all ears.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PPPS: All my love and condolences are for the Kalia family. The
> loss
> > > > > > of a child (I have 4 sons, one of whom is determined to become a
> > > > > > fighter pilot...) must be the worst loss in the world. But that
> does
> > > > > > not give us the power to play God and send out inflammatory emails
> > > > > > like these. God will love. God will forgive. God will give
> grace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PPPPS: I believe in One World. One Heart. One God. You???
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/25/07, jaideep ghosh wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just a couple of questions and observations:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Do I know you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. You think only Hindutva is damaging the country?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, this mail, spreading 'Hindutva', has been signed by Iqbal
> > > Ahmed,
> > > > > > > Murtuza Rohawala, Murutza Shiyazi, Leelamma Jose, Neetu Mathew,
> > > Praveen
> > > > > > > Varghese Isaac, Thomas P. Varghese, Koshi Thomas, HOMI J.
> > > TREASURYVALA,
> > > > > Cmde
> > > > > > > J Postwalla, Cdr JN Vivek Miranda, Joseph R Kishore, B. Barnabas
> > > Rex,
> > > > > > > Marinstine Fernando, abdullah siddique, saif tazir, anwar
> hussain (I
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > surely missed a few names), who, thankfully unlike you, tend to
> > > think
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > this is an issue of Human Rights (a luxury never ever forwarded
> to
> > > our
> > > > > > > soldiers and cops) and National pride.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I fact, I think this is one of the most telling reflections of
> > > > > indignation,
> > > > > > > beyond religion, spread across India, and aborad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To answer you question, no I have no evidence to the contrary,
> but
> > > if
> > > > > you do
> > > > > > > come across any such mails, feel free to send it across, maybe
> I'll
> > > sign
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for forgiveness, I have met Dr. Kalia (Lt Saurabh's father).
> His
> > > > > son's
> > > > > > > body couldn't be brought home in an open casket because of the
> > > condition
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > was in. All of 22 years old. Which God is he to turn to, and
> what
> > > > > > > forgiveness can he afford?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best Wishes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jaideep
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 9/25/07, Jhilmil Breckenridge <
> jhilmilbreckenridge@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > What proof do you all have that Indian army does not do all
> this
> > > and
> > > > > > > > worse to Pakistani soldiers?? I think this is a disgusting
> way to
> > > > > > > > spread Hindutva in our already damaged country!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please think before you all just sign these disgusting
> propaganda
> > > type
> > > > > > > emails.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Love, and blessings be to all, and God, please forgive these
> 729
> > > > > > > > people, if you agree with my point of view...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jhilmil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 9/20/07, Vedika V < v.spirited@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Dear Sir/Madam ,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > SPARE 5-MINUTES from ur busy schedule .PLEASE !!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Lt. Saurabh Kalia of 4 JAT Regiment of the Indian Army laid
> down
> > > his
> > > > > > > > > life at the young age of 22 for the nation while guarding
> the
> > > > > > > > > frontiers at Kargil.
> > > > > > > > > His parents, indeed the Indian Army and nation itself,
> > > > > > > > > lost a dedicated, honest and brave son.
> > > > > > > > > He was the first officer to detect and inform about
> > > > > > > > > Pakistani intrusion. Pakistan captured him and his patrol
> party
> > > of 5
> > > > > > > > > brave men alive on May 15, 1999 from the Indian side of LOC.
> > > > > > > > > They were kept in captivity for three weeks and
> > > > > > > > > subjected to unprecedented brutal torture, evident from
> their
> > > bodies
> > > > > > > handed
> > > > > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > > by Pakistan Army on June 9, 1999.
> > > > > > > > > The Pakistanis indulged in dastardly acts of inflicting
> burns on
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > Indian officers with cigarettes, piercing their ears with
> hot
> > > rods,
> > > > > > > removing
> > > > > > > > > their eyes before puncturing them and breaking most of the
> bones
> > > and
> > > > > > > teeth.
> > > > > > > > > They even chopped off various limbs and private organs of
> the
> > > Indian
> > > > > > > > > soldiers besides inflicting unimaginable physical and mental
> > > > > torture.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > After 22 days of torture, the brave soldiers were ultimately
> > > shot
> > > > > dead.
> > > > > > > A
> > > > > > > > > detailed post-mortem report is with the Indian Army.
> Pakistan
> > > dared
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > humiliate India this way flouting all international norms.
> > > > > > > > > They proved the extent to which they can degrade humanity.
> > > However,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Indian soldiers did not break while undergoing all this
> > > unimaginable
> > > > > > > > > barbarism, which speaks volumes of their patriotism, grit,
> > > > > > > determination,
> > > > > > > > > tenacity and valour - something all of India should be proud
> of.
> > > > > > > > > Sacrificing oneself for the nation is an honour every
> soldier
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > proud
> > > > > > > > > of, but no parent, army or nation can accept what happened
> to
> > > these
> > > > > > > brave
> > > > > > > > > sons of India. I am afraid every parent may think twice to
> send
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > child
> > > > > > > > > in the armed forces if we all fall short of our duty in
> > > safeguarding
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > PRISONERS OF WAR AND LET THEM MEET THE FATE OF LT.SAURABH
> KALIA.
> > > > > > > > > It may also send a demoralising signal to the army personnel
> > > > > fighting
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > the Nation that our POWs in Pak cannot be taken care of. It
> is a
> > > > > matter
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > shame and disgust that most of Indian Human Rights
> Organisations
> > > by
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > large, showed apathy in this matter.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Through this humble submission, may I appeal to all the
> > > civilized
> > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > irrespective of colour, caste, region, religion and
> political
> > > > > lineage to
> > > > > > > > > stir their conscience and rise to take this as a NATIONAL
> ISSUE
> > > !!!
> > > > > > > > > International Human Rights Organizations must be approached
> to
> > > > > expose
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > pressure Pakistan to identify, book and punish all those who
> > > > > perpetrated
> > > > > > > > > this heinous crime to our men in uniform.
> > > > > > > > > If Pakistan is allowed to go unpunished in this case, we can
> > > only
> > > > > > > imagine
> > > > > > > > > the consequences.
> > > > > > > > > Below is the list of 5 other soldiers who preferred to die
> for
> > > the
> > > > > > > country
> > > > > > > > > rather than open their mouths in front of enemy -
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1. Sep. Arjun Ram s/o Sh. Chokka Ram; Village & PO
> > > > > > > > > Gudi. Teh. & Dist.
> > > > > > > > > Nagaur, (Rajasthan)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2. Sep. Bhanwar Lal Bagaria h/o Smt. Santosh Devi;
> > > > > > > > > Village Sivelara;Teh.&
> > > > > > > > > Dist.Sikar (Rajasthan)
> > > > > > > > > 3. Sep. Bhikaram h/o Smt. Bhawri Devi; Village
> > > > > > > > > Patasar; Teh.
> > > > > > > > > Pachpatva;Distt.Barmer (Rajasthan)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 4. Sep. Moola Ram h/o Smt. Rameshwari Devi; Village
> > > > > > > > > Katori; Teh. Jayal;Dist.
> > > > > > > > > Nagaur(Rajasthan)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 5. Sep. Naresh Singh h/o Smt. Kalpana Devi; Village
> > > > > > > > > Chhoti Tallam;
> > > > > > > > > Teh.Iglab; Dist.Aligarh (UP)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yours truly,
> > > > > > > > > Dr. N.K. Kalia (Lt. Saurabh Kalia's father).
> > > > > > > > > Saurabh Nagar,
> > > > > > > > > Palampur-176061
> > > > > > > > > Himachal Pradesh
> > > > > > > > > Tel: +91 (01894) 32065
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please sign in by writing your name and then copy and
> > > > > > > > > paste it again to forward it to your friends and relatives.
> Let
> > > us
> > > > > give
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > supporting hand to Dr. Kalia in his efforts to get justice.
> > > > > > > > > Remember, Lt. Kalia and his colleagues died on the front so
> that
> > > we
> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > sleep peacefully in our homes.